Leading democracy scholar Professor John Keane explores with Amy why and how many 21st century democracies are being undermined and weakened; their citizens being seduced by a dangerous class of political leaders that rule by the magnet, rather than the hammer. They capitalise on disaffection within contemporary democracies, over issues like ever-deepening social inequality, and the feeling that politicians are not listening nor acting in their people's best interests, thus breeding envy and frustration.

In this interview John delves into the ideas in his latest book, Demagogues and Despots: democracies on the brink (NewSouth Publishing), and explains why the words we use to describe contemporary phenomena matters and shapes our world. Specifically, John explains why older terms like, demagogue and despot, are the most accurate way of describing these dangerous leaders and their actions, as opposed to more commonly and loosely used terms like fascist, populist, and authoritarian.

He gives examples of these types of seductive anti-democratic leaders and their actions, which threaten and in some cases destroy the democratic foundations of countries around the world. While whipping up division and conflict in already turbulent and uncertain times, John describes how they continue to build power and influence for themselves and their circle of wealthy followers and supporters. Their power and mode of operation is contagious, as demagogues and despots in the 21st century flock together, creating a risk to other countries not yet under the sway of such leaders, or who are under the early influence of "wannabe despots." How is Australia affected by this trend and are there signs of "wannabe demagoguery" in Australia? John also reflects on whether a democractic society can heal from the wounds of demagoguery and despotism, should a leader eventually be ousted, as in the case of Hungary and Orbán.

John Keane is a Professor of Politics at the University of Sydney. Some of his previous books include, The Life and Death of Democracy, and listen back to Amy's previous interviews with John on The Shortest History of Democracy, and The New Despotism.