Humans have been making use of fire for around a million years, but what if we've been doing it wrong? In the first half of the episode we talk how to do it right, with rocket stoves and biochar, with appropriate technologist Joel Meadows.

Where there is smoke there is fire, but the reverse need not be true says Joel. Smoke is merely inefficiently burnt wood, and all those coughs, cancers and deforestation through the eons were sadly for nought. Rocket stoves are almost smokeless and can be built from scrap.

In the second half of the show we talk with climate scientist Professor David Karoly. He and fellow Climate Change Authority member Professor Clive Hamilton recently released an unprecedented Minority Report arguing that the Authority's latest majority report is politicised and its recommendations lead towards dangerous warming rather than minimising climate change.