Former Breakfaster Sarah Smith steps in for the Spin Cycle team while they're on summer hiatus for a series of long form conversations. This week she chats with audio producer, story teller and researcher Ruby Schwartz, who in her role as Head of Investigative Podcasts at The Age and Sydney Morning Herald recently produced the podcast series ‘Trial By Water’.

Together they talk about the history of investigative podcasts and true crime, discussing the influence of trailblazing pods like ‘Serial’. Ruby takes Sarah for a deepdive behind-the-scenes of Trial by Water’ – a five part series about Robert Farquharson, a man who two decades ago was found guilty of murdering his three sons by driving his car into a dam on Father’s Day 2005. She discusses the challenges, ethics and intentions of investigating a story that many people would rather not dig up.