Dylan Bird is joined by Bob Brown, former leader of the Australian Greens and storied environmental activist, for a wide-ranging conversation reflecting on his decades of activism, key campaigns that have shaped environmental action in Australia, the Albanese government’s inaction on climate and environment, and the modern challenges for the next generation of environmental activists as explored in his new book Defiance: Stories from Nature and Its Defenders.

“I get a lot now particularly from young people - older people as well - about “This is all too bad, it’s over isn’t it? We’re finished?” And the answer to that is no; while there’s life, there’s hope.”