Steve is joined by London auteur JoJo Orme - the creative mind behind gothic-pop project Heartworms. Speaking about her critically-acclaimed debut EP A Comforting Notion, JoJo discusses her love for pop music that makes you uncomfortable.

“A lot of music I listen to is to make me understand my emotions more without ignoring it - a lot of dark music, like Interpol or Radiohead - it’s not jolly but it’s so good and has a catchiness you can hold onto.”

The pair dig into how JoJo has drawn on the difficult times in her life to create her unique style of gothy post-punk - reflecting specifically on the resilience and courage it took to survive her teen years spent living in a YMCA. They also talk about the catharsis of songwriting and what it means to be a part of the Speedy Wunderground family.